Arek Dvornechuck: What's up branding experts? — Arek here at Ebaqdesign. And in this episode interview Gregory V. Diehl and we talk about branding a small business. And Gregory is the author of multiple best-selling books on identity development for businesses and individuals. Gregory is a wordsmith and a mentor and an explainer of how things work, and his mission is to help businesses clarify their vision and value proposition. He is also a personal coach helping people understand their own identity in addition to their brand identity. So, his latest book is called “Brand identity breakthrough” and this is the book we are going to talk about today. So, we are going to talk about branding for small businesses. Hello, Gregory, thank you so much for taking the time to join us on our podcast.
Gregory V. Diehl: Yeah, good to be here.
Arek Dvornechuck: So, in your book, you start by saying that; many business owners today they obsess over the most visible components of their brand, but they somehow ignore the strategy behind it and things, like core values, personality, value proposition, storytelling and so on. And I really like how your book is just full of actionable tips and details of ‘how to do things’ and the questions that you can ask yourself about your business, and I will help you get that started down. So, I just want to make this podcast practical with some actionable things. So, let's start with the basics - why branding even matters for small businesses? Why not just hire a designer on Fiverr and make a website on square space and just start marketing on Facebook?
Gregory V. Diehl: Well, that would really depend what you mean by branding, and it sounds like you might be referring to those obvious ‘physical visible elements’ of a brand that I said that most business owners obsess over things like - what does your logo look like or what font you use on your website, what colors are associated with your brand? And that's what everybody thinks of. Well, what most people think of when they think of a brand because that's what represents the brand, but, what they don't put very much thought into often is the harder stuff, like what are we trying to represent by having this type of logo, in these colors, in this font, and why do we want those things represented, what is the personality of our business, what are the values that we want associated with our business because, one, it's true and authentic to who we are is the people running the business, and two, it's because it's what we know the people we're trying to appeal to are also looking for without being manipulative. But genuinely coming across as the person you are amplified through your business, and only when you can answer those kinds of questions - can you begin to ask another question that comes much further downstream like; well now that we know who we are, and what we're trying to represent to people and why we're trying to represent it to them. Is there a combination of colors that will help us do that better, are there certain design elements we can incorporate into our logo that will help us do that better. And that's that kind of stuff, that kind of thinking, that level of attention to detail and all that invisible strategic thinking is the reason why you probably wouldn't want to just hire a designer on Fiverr or set up a website in five minutes on square space or whatever. Because, you're just not going to be able to put that level of care and attention into what you're doing, right? And it's not to say that you can't be successful even with really poor branding elements. But, you're just not going to come across as genuine and as authentic and as detailed and complex as you could if you want to be as successful as possible. And more importantly, if you want to really express something of meaning and value through your brand.
Arek Dvornechuck: Right, sure. So, some of the benefits you mentioned is that; if you approach your branding project the right way then you can just be… in general ultimately you can be more successful because you're going to start on the right foot, you're going to start with the strategy, and then you're going to… and based on that strategy you're going to think about the visuals and the messaging and so on, instead of doing just designing something, and then later on perhaps you start spending money on marketing and you figure out that it actually doesn't work - your website doesn't convert or people cannot remember… they don't remember your logos it's not memorable so you have to rebrand and so on. So, by just having those things that go about; both strategy and strategic components of the brand you're just going to be much successful when it comes to visual elements of your brand, right?
Gregory V. Diehl: Right, and you know what most people do is, they'll just look at; okay what do the successful companies in my industry do, I’ll just do something really similar to them, but you know maybe there are reasons why those things have worked for the successful companies and maybe those reasons don't necessarily apply to your business, maybe there are many other things they're doing that you wouldn't be able to do as someone starting up and without nearly as much market presence and capital to work with. And you know maybe also you shouldn't be trying to perfectly copy what someone more successful than you was already doing – because, why would somebody choose you over them if you appear identical when they're already way more successful, than you maybe you should be doing the opposite trying to appear unique. \
2. Core values
Arek Dvornechuck: Right, right and that's the goal of branding, I’m glad you mentioned that. Okay, so, this just gets us closer to talking about all those strategic components when it comes to developing brand identity. So, in your book, you talk about the importance of aligning the company's actions with the core values. So, here I just wanted to ask you to share with us some of your methods of uncovering the company's core values. And in your book are you talking about three questions that you use to get into the core of the values held by a business, so these questions are; who are you, what do you do, and why should they care. So, can you just walk us through your method of finding the company's core values?
Gregory V. Diehl: Yeah, it's interesting because as you also mentioned in your introduction of me that I’m also a personal development coach. I like to think of it as I help people figure out their personal identity and also their business identity - depending on which one they need, but to me the two are really extensions of the same thing. You have to know who you are before you can understand the business you're trying to run, because any business you try to run is going to be an extension of you. And those three questions that you mentioned; who are you, what do you do, and why should I care - I like those a lot especially when I begin working with someone new, because they have a way of cutting through the clutter and getting right down to the core of what someone's issue is sometimes. So, the first two questions are pretty common, we probably hear some variation of them all the time in social situations - who are you, what is the answer that comes to your mind when somebody asks that. Well, you probably think of your name because it's the label people use when they talk about you or to you, you probably think of basic identifying information like; well, like I come from this city you know and I have three kids and I really like dogs and baseball, you know so you're just immediately thinking of little bits of information that somehow make you distinct from other people that for some reason you consider important to who you are, like you're probably not going to mention what you ate for breakfast that morning - that'd be kind of a weird answer. Who are you? Oh well I’m a guy who had scrambled eggs for breakfast this morning, right? That's you don't consider that an important part of your core identity and you don't consider it something that makes you distinct from other people. So, that's kind of an absurd example but it really can give you a frame of reference for how we think about ourselves when people ask the nature of our identity, and you can think of that too as how it applies to your business. What is your business. Second question, what do you do? Well, most people will think of their profession when they hear a question like that, right? There are many things you do we all exist for 24 hours a day and we're all doing something during those 24 hours, we're eating, we're sleeping, we're going to the bathroom or talking to other people, but when you answer what do you do, you're probably either going to answer something related to your profession or some hobby, some activity that takes up the bulk of your time, right? Like well, I’m a housewife so that's not a profession in the traditional sense but it is something that defines the majority of your waking hours and the choices you make and you think that somehow adds definition to you, that you take care of kids in your house. Oh well, I’m a musician, I’m a violinist right, okay, obviously you're not spending every waking hour of your life playing the violin but you probably spend at least a few hours a day, maybe several a day playing the violin if you're really that passionate about it. So, that you know, that's an activity that you associate with who you are. And again, if you're talking about your business - what does your business do? Okay, well we manufacture you know a certain type of widget that goes in your car, or we produce clothing for professionals; professional attire in the workplace. You're describing the physical function of what your business does. But then that third question is my favorite partially because it really catches people off guard, and it's where you actually start to get interesting information from people. You've told me who you are and what you do, and now tell me why should I care? That's not a question people are used to hearing very much - why should I care that you produce this kind of clothing, why should I care that you're a housewife, why should I care about any of the things your business does that describe its function in the marketplace? That's the question where you start to think in terms of benefits, instead of features, instead of describing what your product is and what it does you're, now describing the relationship that your client is supposed to have with it. Why you should care about my professional clothing that I produce because it will make you look better to your co-workers and your superiors in the workplace because it will make you feel better at work, and it will make you more productive, it will convey a social role that you want people to associate you with, there are so many reasons why I might want to care about the professional work attire that you produce in your company or whatever it is that you produce. But if you never think of your business in those terms why should anyone care about this thing that I do, you're never going to be able to see your brand from an outsider's perspective, and you're never going to have any kind of real depth or complexity to any of your branding elements; whether that's how you talk about it, or again simple things like the colors and the logo and the fonts.
Arek Dvornechuck: Right, right, I think yeah awesome this makes it clear. So, basically, why should I care, you talk about the benefits - specific benefits not features but benefits.
Gregory V. Diehl: But you need to talk about both, of course. You know it's kind of weird to just talk about benefits in isolation without relating them to features somehow.
Arek Dvornechuck: Yeah but benefits - we care about benefits more than features, right? And it's this great example of first IPod and how they market that, so there were already competitors in the market; some mp3 players but for Apple advertised first IPhone they said that; you're going to hold 1000 songs in your pocket which so they didn't talk about you know how many gigabytes because it's not really - it's hard to like imagine for us like, we don't just we're not going to just calculate how many, like if they give us specific benefits, okay you're going to have thousand songs in your pocket that that's easier to understand than just it's 10 gigabytes of capacity.
Gregory V. Diehl: Yeah absolutely, why should I care that your IPod has 10 gigabytes of capacity? Well, so that you can hold a thousand songs in your pocket. Well, a thousand really? You know that gets a reaction from people.
3. Unique selling proposition
Arek Dvornechuck: Right, so yeah so you can have all your music with you. Okay, so this is one of those elements - core values, and also an important element of your brand identity to talk about is crafting your unique selling proposition, and you talk about it in chapter six. So, in your book we can read quote “uniqueness is vital to our business identity, more so today the than at any other time in history” so, there is now more competition in the market in the marketplace on both global and local levels than ever before, because people make choices based on what they perceive their options to be and they have more options with each passing day. So, it becomes harder to stand out as the right choice in nearly any industry. So, can you talk to us more about your process of crafting a unique selling proposition for a business; whether we are selling services or products?
Gregory V. Diehl: Yeah, well like you said it's more important now than any other time to appear unique, and that's partially because of how much easier it is now to become an entrepreneur than any other time in history because of how technology has changed and markets have opened up. So, because there are more people becoming entrepreneurs, it makes it easier and easier for someone to do something very similar to whatever you're doing. So, you have to find better and better ways to stand out from the increasing competition, and all of this is very good for the consumer of course because they have way more choices to choose from, and prices come down, and everybody gets a lot more out of it in the end. So, if you're in this position where you're trying to think ‘how do I compete with everybody else becoming an entrepreneur’ well, if everyone else is just thinking in terms of; what does my product do that is unique, what is the specific feature that makes it different, well is it bigger, is it smaller, is it lighter, is it simpler, is it more complex, is it cheaper, is it you know those are all very simple ways to differentiate. If you're going to buy a table for your living room, think of what a table as a concept is. It's very simple in principle and is a category, it's a flat surface on legs that you can put things on or sit at, I’m sitting at a table now with my computer on top and talking to you, but I’m using this as an example because I went furniture shopping recently. It's amazing such a simple thing a flat surface to hold my stuff and for me to sit at, has so much variety. When I went to the furniture store I couldn't even begin to decide, well how big does it need to be, what color does it need to be, what material should be made of, should it be round or square or rectangular, how well will it match the decor in the room that I’m planning to put it in, is the dining table or is it a work desk or is it you know like a coffee table type you know. So, that may seem like an absurd example - but even just from this very simple you know what makes a table unique, it's just a flat surface you put things on. How many ways can you change that, you can make it bigger and smaller and change the dimensions right, but no, there's so much more to it than that and the price ranges reflected that. Some were very cheap; under a hundred dollars, some were over a thousand dollars, and the reason for that price discrimination isn't always obvious. Like on the nice ones obviously the basic materials seemed like they were better quality right, and you can probably assume a lot more craftsmanship went into them but it's not always obvious why this one should cost five times as much as that one, right? But there's going to be somebody who saw that table that had this particular aesthetic appeal to it that's somebody who designed it decided upon, that was the exact right size they were looking for that was perfect for the purposes they planned to use that table, like what they planned to put on it and how many people they plan to sit at it, and so forth, that they decided that price of over a thousand dollars much more than the cheaper tables they could be getting was worth it, because it appeared unique in just the right ways that it satisfied what that person was looking for in a table, so they were willing to spend significantly more money on it than just the cheapest most basic common denominator of a table that still serves the function of a flat surface to put things on. May sound like I’m rambling here, but whatever your product or service is, can you picture in your head what is the exact person who would see all the specificities that make your product what it is and say ‘oh that is exactly what I’ve been looking for. In fact, it's so exact to what I’ve been looking for that I would gladly pay twice as much as the going rate for other people offering a similar product or service that didn't have all those specificities that perfectly suit what I’m looking for’ And how do you arrive at what those things are? Can you describe to your audience - first of all, can you even describe your target audience, can you describe who that perfect person is or group of people and the values and associations and needs they have. Can you describe to them how your product or service suits their needs? Can you describe how they're going to be interacting with your product and service in such a way that it will have that specific effect upon them; the table example, yeah you can describe well it's made of this kind of wood which is much more refined and much more durable, will last for 20 years and it looks really nice and look at all the drawers this table has on it, if you're going to be storing stuff in this table like if you're going to use it as a work desk, you're going to need lots of drawers to put all your stuff in and stuff like that. Can you if you can picture the way that somebody plans to use your product or service, you should have some way of connecting all the features you've chosen to incorporate into it to that specific use that people have in mind for it. Because the way you're going to design a coffee table is not going to be the same way that you just you design a work desk, and the people who design these things are going to be able to talk about all the specific things that set them apart and make them perfectly suited for their specific function.
Arek Dvornechuck: (Now we are going to take a quick break here, but we will be right back. Listen! My mission is to help people design iconic brands. So, whether you're a business leader who wants to be more intentional with branding and all of its aspects or you are a creative who wants to attract powerful clients and truly be able to help them with branding, then you need to start with a discovery session and then develop a strategy that will inform all your creative work. And everything you need to learn how to do that, you can find in my online courses at ebaqdesign.com/shop; where I share with you my worksheets, case studies, video tutorials and other additional resources to help you feel safe and strong about your process. And now let's get back to our conversation with Gregory V. Diehl.)
4. Target audience
Arek Dvornechuck: Right, yeah and I think that the example is great, it's just a simple example but it just illustrates you know, because many business owners… they may say something like; hey I just saw some basic products and I cannot really find a unique selling proposition, but I think you can apply it to even some trivial things, so I think this example is great. So, just to sum up for our listeners, what you said is that - more and more people want to become entrepreneurs, and there are more and more businesses, so there is increasing competition, so you need to find a way of communicating those features and benefits. So, finding that crafting that unique selling proposition so that people can imagine how it's going to affect their life, how it's going to make their life better. So, basically when it comes to crafting unique selling proposition, you need to know your customer well, so it this gets us closer to talking about target audience because without knowing your customers you probably cannot really find this unique selling proposition, and I also think that this is probably the most important part of branding is knowing your target audience, right? So, so many business owners have this…especially starting entrepreneurs have this misconception that everyone is their customer because they just don't want to exclude anyone. But in your book you say that; your business cannot compete with everyone because you need to have focus, and you cannot just be all things to all people because then you really service no one. So, you recommend that small businesses should focus on serving a specific need, so narrow it down and dominate the specific well-defined category. So, can we talk more about that and the importance of narrowing down your target audience and getting clarity here on who is your perfect customer and it's not everyone, right?
Gregory V. Diehl: Yeah, it's really quite crazy how many businesses and entrepreneurs treat the concept of a target audience; almost like an afterthought. Like they put so much work into this is the kind of business I want to run, this is the kind of widget I want to produce, and then later on down the road like; okay now that I’ve done all that, who am I trying to sell it to I guess. You know it's just like some okay the marketing people will take care of that. But no, like it's really integral to everything you're doing because, the more you understand about your product and what it does uniquely well in the space it fills in the marketplace by corollary, you should also easily be able to picture what kind of person wants that thing with all those specific features that does things in such a specific way. You really can't understand your product without also understanding who it's for, and likewise you can't begin to understand what kind of person you want to sell to, but also having a better understanding of what kind of product will appeal to that kind of person the two halves of the same coin, two parts of the same equation. So, if you're… it's kind of an exercise in empathy. If you're only seeing it from your own perspective, and this is no different than any other kind of art somebody might produce. If you're trying to write a book, you know obviously something I have some experience with, and you just want to write the book you want to write, like this is everything I’ve ever wanted to say my entire life, I’m going to put it all in my big manifesto, and you don't think at all about what kind of person is going to be reading this book, how is it going to compare to other books on the same topic they've read before, what are they going to be expecting what parts are going to confuse them and leave them wanting more, what parts are going to seem redundant and over the top of them? Well, your book is just going to be really bad quality and no one's going to buy it, because you're not seeing it from the consumer's perspective. You're too caught up in your own art. You're too in love with the creation. So, everybody if they're creating something that is intended to be consumed in the marketplace - now maybe if you're just an artist who's playing for your own enjoyment that doesn't matter, as long as you're happy with your painting or the music you play doesn't matter whether people think of it. But if you're an entrepreneur, you don't have that luxury, because your success; any metric that matters in business depends upon somebody somewhere wanting to buy what you have created and offered for sale, otherwise don't offer it for sale. And if so, you have to empathize, you have you have to be thinking about it from the market's perspective at the same time that you're going through that artistic creative process saying; what do I want to produce and why do I want to produce it that way? Which may originate purely as just passion if you have a passion for tables - a particular specific type of table maybe that you really want to produce for people, that's a fine starting place, absolutely, I think there needs to be passion behind everything you do in life, and especially anything you do as an entrepreneur. But that's not the only factor that matters, you've got to find where that passion aligns with what people want, and can you picture why they want it? And can you see that there isn't somebody already doing the same thing? So that there will be some reason for somebody to want to participate in your passion. That's really what's happening when somebody chooses to buy what you've produced, they are participating in your passion with you. You have convinced them, it's a good idea, but if you can't see what kind of person will share that value with you, and say ‘yes, holy crap Gregory that is exactly the table I’ve been looking for’, it's just never going to happen beyond some like accidental success you may find with some customers here and there, but you're never going to be able to systematize and grow and really create a brand in the true sense of the word where you have unchanging values and principles that define what you're doing. \
5. Brand personality
Arek Dvornechuck: Right, so just to sum up for our listeners, so you actually - you have to picture who wants that product and you just need to see that person who want to buy what you sell or what you're selling. So, it's an exercise in empathy, so of course, you might be passionate about doing one thing but also you have to align that passion with people who actually want that thing or that service or product from you, so it works both ways, right? So, it's like it correlates target audience and the services or products that you offer, right? So, now let's talk about brand personality because target audience is very important, knowing your customers, define your core values and also crafting a unique selling proposition. And another component would be brand personality, because you want people to feel a certain way about your brand. So, in your book you say something really interesting “we all play characters in the larger narrative of the world around us, if you don't choose for yourself what kind of character you want others to treat you as, then the world will just do it for you without your consent, and the same is true of your company's brand” And so how people form the right perception about the character of your business from the get-go and how to establish the strong brand personality?
Gregory V. Diehl: Well, it's a lot like what I was saying before when you try to define who you are, what makes you the kind of person you are. A big part of that needs to be your personality and the way you interact with people. So, when you shop at a particular store, there could be many reasons why you choose that store, it may be because they offer a selection that no one else does, there are certain items you can only get there that you need. It may be that their prices are better, of course that's a factor, but also it may just be that you feel better in that store - maybe the interior design is set up in such a way that it feels inviting and warm and welcome, so you enjoy the process of shopping there more. Maybe so much more that you'd be willing to drive further to shop there, even though there are other stores that are more convenient and closer to you. It may be something to do with the way they train their employees to interact with you, maybe they're just way more friendly, way more helpful or…obviously those things are universally desirable; helpful and friendly and warm and inviting. But there are other things that are less obvious aspects of personality that may not be universally desirable, but for a particular kind of person may be super desirable. Like I always think that one of aspects of my uniqueness as an author and as a coach is something that many people may find undesirable, but I can be very direct, I can be pedantic, I can be condescending, I can be rude, I can take on something of a lecturing tone with the people I work with but you may hear a bit in my voice now. You can probably get a sense just from hearing my tone of voice and the way I talk, about my overall personality and how that's unique from other people who may talk about the same subject like marketing and branding and excelling propositions, you may, but my personality may stand out in your mind is either a good or a bad thing you don't have to like me, but the point is that it's notable, it is different than what you might expect from someone else. And so, for a certain kind of person that's super desirable, not just the content I talk about, there are tons of books written on branding there are tons of coaches who can help you with all kinds of things, but maybe you for some reason you prefer the personality I use while I talk about these things, maybe it just helps you retain the information more maybe you enjoy the process more, maybe you feel more challenged and more interested. Therefore, so no matter what it is you're doing - what business you're in, maybe the nature of your business requires you to have one-on-one interactions with people; like I’m having open-ended interaction with you right now or it may be something more detached and removed like the experience of walking into a store, but all of these things are part of what we consider the personality of an individual or a brand, and it's the kind of stuff that's much harder to quantify than just while we produce x number of these widgets that do x y and z and can fit 1000 songs in your pocket, and they're red and blue - those things are easy to write down and measure. It's much harder to measure and quantify what a personality is beyond just general terms that are subjective to you, right? Warm and friendly and inviting or cold and condescending and lecturing, all those things are subjective to every individual, but you can't get a general sense especially from things like market feedback. Can you beta test whatever it is you're offering and get a general sense of how people actually respond to it beyond the objectively quantifiable things; like how big it is or how much it costs.
Arek Dvornechuck: Right, right, yeah so, brand personality is it's just making your brand appear as a humor, right? So, we all have personalities, and some personalities will attract each other and so some will just repel one another. And I think that category will dictate some of this personality because for example; if you have a bank or some financial institution you probably want to make people secure and safe and things like that. But as you mentioned also; personality needs to work for you. So, whatever personality you assume it just needs to resonate with the customers that you are trying to reach. So…
Gregory V. Diehl: Yeah and it's okay if you repel those other customers that you're not trying to. I don't care if you don't like me for example, if you don't like me it's just a sign you're probably not my ideal customer, that's fine.
Arek Dvornechuck: Right, right but then you are well defined so you're going to be more successful in attracting those people that you want to attract, right?
Gregory V. Diehl: Yeah, absolutely, it's kind of an all or nothing thing. You either really like me or you or not at all.
6. Brand storytelling
Arek Dvornechuck: Right and it goes back to what you're… I highlighted it this in your book this quote that you know you cannot be… I don't remember word by word but you mentioned something that you cannot just be ‘all things to all people’ you have to really narrow down and you have to find that need. So, I think it also applies to your brand personality, right? You need to define your personality well, and just stick to it, and don't care about alienating people who you really don't want to be your customers anyways, right? So, I just wanted to wrap it all up by talking about brand storytelling, because your book is about business storytelling, right? So, how to… so now we have all those different components of brand identity or a brand, and how to put this all together to tell a brand story - a compelling brand story. And you in your book you say; you need to be able to talk about what you do in a way that attracts the right people and makes them think your business can bring them happiness in a way that no other business can. So, perhaps can you can share with us some tips on how to be an effective communicator and be clear on our core message as a business, as a brand, so how to tell a good story?
Gregory V. Diehl: Well, it has to do with how people conceptualize information, how they relate to it, how they remember it. Like, if I just sit here and list everything that's great about myself, you're probably not going to find it very interesting. But if I tell a story that demonstrates many of the things I want to get across to you which may be something like my life story and where I grew up and where I went to school or how I traveled around the world in my 20s and did all these interesting things, by telling that story you will infer many things about me that will be much more effective if I just tell you; well I’m an adventurous person and I like to challenge myself and I’m very curious about x y and z. Like I said, I tell you a story that demonstrates those things, you may not remember the specific words I use to tell the story, but you will remember the feeling in the associations that that story gives you, and that's how branding almost always works too, with the exception of things like slogans and taglines and jingles that get stuck in our head that we associate with companies and that's the purpose of a slogan or a tag line or a jingle. But in general, most of the communication that we have with a brand or with a person, we don't remember the specific context that is said verbally to us, explicitly to us, but we do remember how it made us feel and the associations we built with that person or that brand because of it. So, everybody involved in business or in marketing in any way has to become a storyteller, even in ways that we don't necessarily think of as stories, because to us it might just seem like well I’m just talking, I’m just describing who I am and what I do. I know you're crafting a container to hold this information, a container that's entertaining and interesting to people and makes me want to keep listening and learn more about what's happening, and therefore about you or the brand that you're talking about.
Arek Dvornechuck: Right, so just to sum up, so people conceptualize information in different ways. So, instead of just directly telling them what you want to communicate, you should tell a compelling story that demonstrates all those things that you want to get across to your customers, so for example you know if you want to get across your core values, and your unique value proposition, perhaps you should tell a story that will make them feel; whether it's safe or secure or things like that. So, yeah so that's about storytelling, and so whether you sell products or services - you also said that everyone in business has to become a storyteller and I think this is a great thing for all of us - entrepreneurs and also creators who work with entrepreneurs to help them really craft that story and tell our competing store and communicate all those things that you we want them to remember about our brand. So, as we are approaching the end of our episode, please let us know how we can find more about you, and how to get in touch with you, and I will include all the links in the description.
Gregory V. Diehl: Well, if you like what you have heard or the way that I have talked and explained things, I do suggest you read “Brand Identity Breakthrough” my business book because it talks about all these things in much greater detail and elaborates much more on these things. I’ve written a few other books that might also be useful too; specifically… it's interesting because I wrote a book about publishing, called the “Influential author” and while much of the book is about how to be a better writer and how to structure a non-fiction book, a great deal about it is really just about the marketing of a book and thinking of your book like a unique product that you're putting on the market, which is not something many authors naturally do until somebody tells them how to do that, so there's definitely some overlap there. That book's called the influential author. I have a few others on amazon. If you'd like to get in touch with me, you can go to identitypublications.com that's my publication company, you can message me there or gregorydiehl.net that's my coaching website Diehl is spelled D-I-E-H-L.
Arek Dvornechuck: .net, okay so, check out the Gregory's book on amazon "Brand Identity Breakthrough” this is the book I just try to get Gregory to give us an overview of what you can expect from the book, but obviously you can find many more tips, and I really like how… I would just highly recommend this book to anyone who is getting either started in business or starting a new project because it's just a great reference book and you can just highlight and bookmark some information and some themes, and as you develop your branding and marketing materials you can just always return to that book. So, it's very, very practical and actionable and down to earth. So, thank you so much for coming on the show, and I really appreciate that.
Gregory V. Diehl: Thanks for having me.
Arek Dvornechuck: So this is it for today's episode, and make sure to go and check out the Gregory's website and follow him on social media, and you can find all the links on this episode's page at ebaqdesign.com/podcast/12. So, thanks for tuning in, and if you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to my podcast for more tips on branding, strategy and design. This was Arek Dvornechuck from Ebaqdesign.
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